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[E34 Q&A] The Splish Splash Club


(Karamor) #42

It really doesn't fit RAI either.

The ability is pretty clear about it that the possessing ghost can use none of the tragets knowledge and training.

(gmanno99) #43

I am only going to say that it says right in the D&D books say that they are only a guidelines for the game and the DM has final say so plz stop this pointless argument you can't change the past.

(Adubuu) #44

This - the argument should have stopped the moment people pointed out Adam had already addressed it. Bringing up an honest mistake is one thing, telling him his home-ruling is not allowed is another. It's Adam's game.

And as has also been pointed out; nobody died.

(Kol_Saresk) #45

I mean, my reaction is that since it was addressed in the episode, it should have stayed there. It never should have been a discussion point because it had fully been addressed. It's a c'est la vie type situation.

Anyways. So @AdamKoebel, feel free to kinda do the "I can't answer because of spoilers" thing. I'm more running on a "I want to see if I understand how things are" rather than ask an actual question.

So, when we first saw Hazan, I remember asking about the servants of the Tower and postulating if they were like the Keepers of Time from the Sovereign Stone novels, where they would often be sent to "events of great change" to record them as they happen for posterity.

With this last episode, it still seems there is like that has become very..... mutable at best. Because by drawing the wards about the Rock Gnome King's lair, he is participating to some degree or another. He just isn't directly interfering with Humanity.

But we also see the ruins where it's kind of obvious that whatever their role is, they are willing to bind shades and ghosts. Which one the hand is kind of significant because we know shades come from the Mara, and were responsible for the first and fully complete TPK. Okay, maybe not all shades, but at least some.

So like, right now, they seem like some sort guardian type figure. Like, Humanity is on its own fighting the Mara. But if Humanity wins the fight, then they have no problem making sure the evil is sealed away, like how the ghosts and shades are, and probably how all the other evils of the Rock Gnome Kings are now. Wardens! They're like Wardens of all of the world's greatest evils and while they've taken a vow of non-interference(Stupid Star Trek Prime Directive lol), which means they might not do anything in say, the case of the Necromancer King and his growing army of the Undead, but if the Necromancer King was beaten and either he or some of his minions survived, then a servant of the Tower would show up and bind them to a place so maybe they could be dealt with later.

And like, I totally lost my train of thought. I feel like their theme is to be a type of Sin-Eater who takes on the bad karma of the world, but because of some weird non-interference pact, they are unable to prevent the bad karma from forming and/or growing. It has to be dealt with, and then they just come in and clean it up and keep it from infecting the rest of the world. I dunno lol. I'm just rambling like I said. I really hope Berg getting that hood somehow results in him either becoming a servant of the Tower are crossing their paths more awesome so we can find out more lol.

(Typoko) #46

After watching the fourth hour, i came here for interesting discussion. All i can see is complaining about game mechanics that DM is allowed to take any amount liberation as they want to.

Who is to say that the ghost didn't have proficiency with martial weapons, huh? Maybe the ghost had been a level 6 Barbarian? Clearly it had pretty sick screams to back that up.

What is the most disappointing thing is that no one is quoting their sources but rather rambling about and trying to explain strict rules without proper terminology. Chill out guys and start giving pages to rulebooks if you try to make a believable case.

Basic Ghost Possession indeed doesn't give access to the "Class Features" of the possessed target. ( ) When we take a peak in to PHB to see what things are actually listed as Class Features we can see that even Hit Points are listed under the Class Features. (PHB p. 37). Shouldn't he then just die instantly as the Ghost can't use the Hit Points granted by the Hit Dice? Being able to use Extra Attack can be seen as something that the body is able to do due the same growth that increases the Hit Point maximum. It's not something you know how to do, but rather something you can do.

Just dropping my 2 cents here.

(AdamKoebel) #47

This is something I hate about "the ghost doesn't use class features" because that's basically everything about a character. I understand that it's for balance purposes but like, it's ludicrous to break things down purely along mechanical lines when things like HP is on that list.

(AdamKoebel) #49

great questions. i have no idea.

(Typoko) #51

They get to use their cool exit body skill that makes people fear them. :slight_smile:

(Karamor) #52

The point of possession is to gain a body?

Also, it can easily use up a lot of resources without any real cost for the ghost.

It's almost free.

Without a cleric or a paladin of one of three vows, you also have no choice but to subdue your party member. That's a lot of gain.

Without a paladin the ghost is also a huge threat in itself. They're resistant to everything but radiant and immune to conditions and hit for as much HP as a mage of that level has.

I think you're hugely misjudging how dangerous a ghost is to a party that doesn't have a paladin.

Put it into a position of secondary mob in a larger group of monsters, not the only real threat, and see parties get taken apart when the tanks switch sides.

(Kol_Saresk) #53

But the ghost would have to have access to at least some class abilities in order to be something other than a high ac, high hp, high strength monster.

Wait Adam is saying that if that's all he gets out of introducing a ghost into the CR, then he can just go back to househacking dragons as Iron Man Elves.

(Typoko) #54

The problem is that the body wouldn't have hit points (Class Feature), ability to wield any weapons (Proficiency) or wear armor (Proficiency). So the possessed body would not have any health, really bad at hitting anything and anything it does is at disadvantage. Even with being able to have Hit Points, the body is pretty worthless in doing anything else than just get killed.

Possession can be extremely disruptive for the party if used in a larger fight. Problem is that taking control away from someone for longer than few rounds means that now you have someone in the game that can't join in on the fun of the combat but instead just wait and see what everyone else does. For the sake of flow of game and fun i feel like possession type effects work better if they are used in special situations that focuses on the possession instead of it being a side show that takes one of the players out of the game. It's kind of insulting if the possessed character then can't even really be a threat due the fact how weak it is.

I'm pretty sure Cleric is the MVP against Ghosts with Turn Undead and dem Guiding Bolts. The bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage resistances only apply to non-magical weapons anyway. With only 45 average HP and 11 AC it is rather fragile even with the resistances.

PS: I like how, with almost complete immunity to conditions, Ghosts can be Stunned. :wink: Monk Pimp Slap OP as heck!

(TwoToneTerran) #55

Possession should work as Adam ruled it to make it threatening but it, like many super debilitating "Save or suck" effects in the game, should allow subsequent saving throws at the end of turns. It's not the best designed monster. If the designers necessarily needed the flavor of permanent possession then make it a "After x failed saving throws it's permanent" addendum.

It's hilarious to me that four level 20 characters can instantly lose to 4 ghosts on an initiative roll/surprise round and a couple bad saves because possession lacks the most common save-adjacent clause in the game.