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[E34 Q&A] The Splish Splash Club


(Karamor) #21

In AD&D ghosts used to just do 2d10 years of aging as damage. It's a hold over from that time.

There are a few methods in the game to rejuvenate people again.

It's still a tough ability especially when there's more than one ghost present, but to be honest, D&D5 has downgraded so many things to minor inconveniences that the few monsters that have abilites like this stick out more.

(MrCandle) #22

Oh yeah for sure its remnant! I suppose I should've been more clear, It seems ridiculous as a 5E mechanic considering how much 5E emphasizes roleplaying. Aging 40 years INSTANTLY seems ridiculous!

Also the problem is that its only heal-able if greater restoration is used within 24 hours. So if spell slots are used that are needed for it then shrug you're now older forever (Technically true after every second that passes but you know what I mean)

It doesn't seem like a tough ability apart from that. However, yeah, 3 ghosts. Do badly, Age 120 years as a human character. Die instantly. :stuck_out_tongue:

(Karamor) #23

Undead in D5 are basically the "are you prepared?" check.

A simple Protection from Evil and Good is already countering most of the worst undead abilities.
No charm, frighten, possession and it's a on the paladin list too who is likely to have decent wisdom and char saves by himself.

(TwilightBorealis) #24

Yes. He rolled a 6 and recharged the possession ability. He also rolled for recharge on the water elemental ability but did not get the needed 6.

(TheDesec) #25

The flaming, floating skulls reminded me of Statler & Waldorf...


(SirKillsalot101) #26

With the party backtracking to the caves this episode it got me thinking about geography.

@AdamKoebel is there any chance of a worldmap?

(TigerMeltz) #27

Ok. I logged in for the first time to say a few things I feel that needed to be said. ITS SYMBOLISM JP! SYMBOLISM! NOT SYMBOLOGY!!! C'mon, the Boondock Saints had an amazing scene on it.

Two, Possessed characters do NOT have access to class features. So when Berg was possessed, a possessed Berg can only make ONE attack. He cannot make a multiattack with two swings for his action as it is a class feature, HE CANNOT rage as that is a class feature, he cannot make a 3rd attack since he is raging. That fight was unnecessarily difficult. I can accept that with Berg's TERRIBLE INT, CHA, and WIS makes him bad at escaping that stuff, but thats totally ok that's just how his character is.

Super cool things, Azriel one shotting the Shades left and right, Dan's RP in the first 90 minutes was just outstanding, JP remembering to cast bless AND THE PARTY REMEMBERING THEY'RE BLESSED!

(Drumurboy) #28

Pretty sure the multiattack was due to Berg's level. His attack action is 2 swings per the 5th lvl feature of Barbarians. At least that's for 2 attacks and the third was due to rage which had already been declared before he got possessed.
If Berg was not enraged then got possessed and flew into a rage I could see your argument clearly, but because he was already enraged it makes the call more ambiguous unless there is a specific rule regarding possession while enraged.

Should Berg have dropped out of rage mode? Unless there is a rule that says so it's up to the DM's discretion.

At least that's my take :smiley:

(TigerMeltz) #29

Any benefit you get from the PHB for your class is off limits when possessed. The multi-attack is a class feature to barbarians. His rage can be up kept (is that the right phrasing?) likely at the DM's discretion, but not inflict rage damage or give him a 3rd attack. If what keeps Rage going doesn't happen, which I think is making an attack or taking damage, the Rage should have subsided.

Also, if you think about it, the ghost took over his mind where Berg's rage comes from. The Ghost wasn't enraged nor should it have access to rage. There was a different pilot in Berg's body. Berg did not consent either :frowning:

(TwilightBorealis) #30

Ah, but you see, Berg (like everyone in CoS) has two minds. The upper mind is rational and the lower mind is where rage comes from. If possession takes over the upper mind, it is possible that the lower mind would continue doing what it always does... killing things.

(TigerMeltz) #31

The ghost would have had two minds too then right? I don't mind the Rage being up kept by doing what keeps it active.

Adam said you just get two attacks at this level, one, no you don't. Not all classes get two attacks per attack action at level 5. The following classes get extra attack: Barbarians, Fighters, Monks, Paladins, and Rangers,

Classes that do not: Bards, Clerics, Druids, Rogues, Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Wizards.

So IF ALL classes got a multiattack at level 5, I would be ok with it. I'm not ok with it because Possessed Berg just steamrolled and it shouldn't have been that way.

(Drumurboy) #32

I feel like this is getting more granular than 5e is equiped to deal with.

(Adubuu) #33

I don't know that there's anything granular about it. You said it in your first post "His attack action is 2 swings per the 5th lvl feature of Barbarians. " - You literally used the word that the possessed character doesn't have access to. :stuck_out_tongue: It's listed under class features, ergo Adam should not have been using it. Shit happens, though. Life goes on.

(The discussion on the topic, however, far more granular than D&D5E intends.)

(Kol_Saresk) #34

So......... is there no such thing as house ruling in D&D5E?

(Adubuu) #35

D&D5E was built from the ground up for house ruling. But since it wasn't even alluded to, I imagine most of the people upset are so because the changes were literally revoking balancing measures put there for a reason. Berg is tremendously dangerous at full strength, and it's not usually "fun" to have to expend party resources on KOing one of your own team mates.

Some people have absolutely gotten a little more angry about it than they should have (particularly on youtube), especially since Adam hasn't even commented on whether it was just an honest mistake.

(Karamor) #37

You're posting the problem here yourself. If extra attacks come from level in the barbarian class, then other features should too.

It's a highly inconsistent ruling as it leaves the mechanic completely in "today it works like this " territory every time someone new gets possessed.


Adam made a statement in chat that he would house rule it like this.

So, that's his call and that's what the players accepted.

(Adubuu) #38

Well, that rather clears up that discussion then! I wish someone had said that earlier. :stuck_out_tongue:

(Kol_Saresk) #39

So, just got to this part of the MP3, and @AdamKoebel does explain his reasoning because this same freakout happened during the show. The extra attacks from being level 5, Adam counts as being built into the character. They are part of Berg's statline, not separate from it.

Adam also counts Rage and its benefits as having been a spell cast on Berg before he was possessed and so when he was possessed, the concentration carried over as part of Berg, and would have went away normally.

So yes, maybe not the RAW, but it certainly does fit an RAI, and even if it didn't, it is a concious decision by Adam to do it anyways.

So really, this one has already been nipped in the butt.

(TigerMeltz) #40

Adam shouldn't of had Berg's proficiency bonus either on his attacks which he did as well, all of those rolls should have been at minus 3 which is what level 5 barbarians get for proficiency. Azriel would have not been hit so hard if One Adam subtracted 3 from all of Berg's rolls, let alone not giving Berg 3 attacks while possessed. It should have only been his strength modifier and whatever the stat-line is of the hammer (+1 IIRC).

Also, possession makes the target incapacitated. Being incapacitated drops the rage by the rules. I'm still ok with Adam keeping the rage on, still not ok with having his prof bonus on his attacks and making 3 attacks per turn. Possessed Berg should have just been a half-orc with his racial abilities and a big hammer.

(JimB0b0) #41

They realized the proficiency thing and fixed it. Also, its not like anyone died in that fight. It just made the fight more interesting imo