You must have missed it but Agni left it pretty clear that she could not or did not know how to help with that.
That’s only because Ramus was asking with roleplaying, rather than asking with Divine Intervention, and when he finally did use it, he asked the wrong deity.
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Very cool! Good to know.
4 Likes
Also having watched the post show, get yourself ready Adam for when Berg becomes lvl 14. He’ll get the Rage Beyond Death ability for being a Zealot, literally being unable to die while he rages until the rage ends, and during that time any heal reset his death saves even when he has 4 failures.
Well, he would not be using Divine Intervention to ask Agni after the scene she appeared to him and implied she could not help him with his soul issue, that would be some poor roleplaying.
And yes, he could have done it regardless and I guess Adam would have been forced to come up with some way Agni was able to circumvent her previously stated inability to bring Ramus his soul or make him a new one, which would be a shitty thing to do as a player, to ignore the fictional positioning that had been established to force your way.
He could have used Divine Intervention before Agni appeared to him and asked her without ever getting the interaction to learn she didn’t have that sort of power thus negating my arguments above but Mike’s question was about the roleplaying interaction in particular and Ramus not asking a question he certainly got the answer for, so I wasn’t even talking about a possible scenario where they had not spoken or where Divine Intervention was used instead.
I didn’t see the post show and if this came up but one note on JP multiclassing is Barbarians don’t get the majority of their rage bonuses if they are wearing heavy armor. Now his Unarmored Defense would still be pretty good at 15 and his high HP plus at 2nd level being able to reckless attack for 6 attacks might still be worth it. Now that Berg doesn’t have a bonus action attack to have to deal with I hope he considers shield Master next level. The dex save bonuses would help a lot.
This isn’t a question for you but in general but do we know how many days it’s been since Ramus’ divine intervention succeeded? It happened on the second day on the way back and once they got back he was unconscious for 5 days. So I’m thinking it’s been 6 or 7 days.
Well, he would not be using Divine Intervention to ask Agni after the scene she appeared to him and implied she could not help him with his soul issue, that would be some poor roleplaying.
Yeah, but during GM prep, Adam figured out some things that could happen if Ramus got Agni to help him, so I interpret her answer as not knowing her own powers, not that she didn’t have that power. Agni, being an aspect of Imix, is kind of a figment of the world’s imagination. What she is able to do is shaped by the faith of those who worship her.
She didn’t exist until she was created by the human power of anthropomorphism, when Utrix conjured her out of Imix. I think Ramus’s faith could have given her the power to tap the Fountain on his behalf in a way she wouldn’t know otherwise. But Ramus needed to work his Priest of a New God muscles for it; a newly forged soul wasn’t going to get handed to him by just asking nicely. You can’t treat a god like an ordinary person you could be friends with. It is the worship of mortals that allows primordials to rise up to the level of gods.
Agni is a child as far as gods go, and is still learning her place in the world. She didn’t know what would happen when she forged Berg’s metal arm, or gave Ramus her blessing. In a sense, she didn’t have that power until the interaction between mortal belief and divine spark made it real in the form of a pact. To be a priest, you need to believe in your god even if that god doesn’t believe in itself.
However, Ramus didn’t persist. He gave up at the slightest implication of resistance, regressing back to the familiar comfort of the Tower, whose lesson he still hasn’t learned. He shrank back to his old masters at the first rejection, and so he failed the test. He wasn’t able to believe in Agni. He was just shopping around!
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I really like this evaluation of Ramus but an important piece of info is the fact that this isn’t Ramus but a corpse with that believes it to be so. No matter what Ramus did or learn, it would of meant nothing for he has no upper soul. To follow the lesson of the Tower is to simply waste away, for under the eyes of Heaven Ramus is already dead and this wasting facsimile will disappear soon enough.
Well now that he does have a soul, one provided by the mara, Heaven shall soon be made aware that the shambling corpse of the one they abused and took advantage of is free to do whatever it wishes. It can no longer provide any logical arguments to Ramus to sway him, for he is healthy. All that’s left is Berg, but even then that’s up to him to decide what to do with Ramus.
To follow the lesson of the Tower is to simply waste away, for under the eyes of Heaven Ramus is already dead and this wasting facsimile will disappear soon enough.
While that is one way in which the Tower wants Ramus to let go, I was thinking that what Ramus can’t let go of is the Tower itself. Even though he resents Heaven, that is still where he looked for help when he finally chose to be persistent. Berg was able to pass from under the shadow of the Tower by letting go of his hatred, but Ramus is still holding onto his spite.
As long as he does, he has no room to become the Prophet of Agni. If Ramus were able to actually devote himself to Agni instead of treating her like a magic vendor, perhaps the Goddess of the Forge could have crafted that wasting facsimile into a real boy. The price is a deeds point; Ramus would have to pivot on his cynicism and become a devout person.
Then we could have had a story about an alternative humanocentric religion emerging outside the rules of Heaven, which doesn’t depend on the Mara either. Agni might be a primordial, but so were originally what are now the Gods of Heaven.
The Forge represents the taming of fire, the power of creation, not a return to the inhuman forces of nature represented by the Old Primordials. What needs to be awakened is not Imix but rather a new generation of Primordials, like Agni, that represent Gods of the Earth in symbiotic cooperation with humanity.
I hope that arc is still in front of us. What if Agni could take the replacement soul created by the Mara, melt it in a crucible to purify it, and cast it into something new?
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Ramus got used by Heaven, and he is rightfully pissed about it. He sees the travesty of bureaucracy that is Heaven and realises that there is nothing pure about it, they use whatever means they can in order to further their goals and control mortal plane. If Heaven is absolute Order and Mara is absolute Chaos, both are equally destructive and unwanted. Maybe now that he has a soul forged by the Mara, which should be equally as strong as a soul forged by Heaven, he can try to finally bring about the end of both.
Also, Agni is not a “new generation” of primodrials, Agni is Imix, much like in real life Jesus isn’t a new generation of God, he is God. The way Adam designed and explained it makes it very accurate and similar in nature.
Arianism is just one form of nontrinitarian Christianity, where Jesus is created by God the Father and is distinct from Him. Agni hasn’t finished becoming fully distinct from Imix because she doesn’t have any worshipers yet. She’s a small god, and she represents the human world, not an impassive force of nature.
I suspect it was worship by early humans that led to the Gods of the Earth becoming distinct from their respective grand elemental being, as they were given anthropic form by human prayer and ritual. That explains how they became intelligible to humans and eventually powerful enough to establish Heaven. I think Agni is in an early stage of the same phenomenon, initiated by the power of Utrix’s belief in his pact with Imix.
After tearing down Heaven, rather than establishing a new bureaucracy or reverting to the direct rule of gods, they could create a society of theodidactic anarcho-syndicates instead!
Adam himself stated that Agni is basically Imix/ a part of Imix in the live show, go watch it. If he decides to change that later on then it’s his choice.
P.S. And yes i do know of Arianism
Maharib multiclassing unto Barb would be neat character development. I could totally see him start unconsciously emulate Berg after having finished his primary objective of finding the Embers.
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Week 101 roll results and statistics:
Ramus Krill (DansGaming):
Roll 1
- type: Save
- Skill: Constitution
- Roll: 18
- Modifier: +3
- Result: 21
- Advantage: 0
Roll 2
- type: Skill check
- Skill: ?
- Roll: 19
- Modifier: 0
- Result: 19
- Advantage: 0
Roll 3
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Initiative
- Roll: 16
- Modifier: +2
- Result: 18
- Advantage: 0
Roll 4
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Perception
- Roll: 10
- Modifier: +9
- Result: 19
- Advantage: 0
Roll 5
- type: Spell
- Spell: Scorching Ray
- Roll: 15
- Modifier: +9
- Result: 24
- Hit: +
- Damage: 7
- Advantage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 5
Roll 6
- type: Spell
- Spell: Scorching Ray
- Roll: 8
- Modifier: +9
- Result: 17
- Hit: +
- Damage: 4
- Advantage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 5
Roll 7
- type: Spell
- Spell: Scorching Ray
- Roll: 20
- Modifier: +9
- Result: 29
- Hit: ++
- Damage: 18
- Advantage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 5
Roll 8
- type: Save
- Skill: Dexterity
- Roll: 15
- Modifier: +3
- Result: 18
- Advantage: +
Roll 9
- type: Spell
- Spell: Scorching Ray
- Roll: 7
- Modifier: +9
- Result: 16
- Hit: +
- Damage: 8
- Advantage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 9
Roll 10
- type: Spell
- Spell: Scorching Ray
- Roll: 8
- Modifier: +9
- Result: 17
- Hit: +
- Damage: 5
- Advantage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 9
Roll 11
- type: Spell
- Spell: Scorching Ray
- Roll: 5
- Modifier: +9
- Result: 14
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
- Advantage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 9
Roll 12
- type: Spell
- Spell: Sacred Flame
- Damage: 20
Roll 13
- type: Save
- Skill: Wisdom
- Roll: 1
- Modifier: +10
- Result: 11
- Advantage: 0
Yotta Zō (Ezekiel_III):
Roll 1
- type: Skill check
- Skill: ?
- Roll: 15
- Modifier: 0
- Result: 15
- Advantage: 0
Roll 2
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Initiative
- Roll: 4
- Modifier: +2
- Result: 6
- Advantage: 0
Roll 3
- type: Attack
- Roll: 4
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 12
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 3
Roll 4
- type: Attack
- Roll: 4
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 12
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 3
Roll 5
- type: Attack
- Roll: 6
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 14
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 3
Roll 6
- type: Attack
- Roll: 4
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 12
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 3
Roll 7
- type: Attack
- Roll: 16
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 24
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 9
- FirstAtkRnd: 7
Roll 8
- type: Attack
- Roll: 9
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 17
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 7
- FirstAtkRnd: 7
Roll 9
- type: Attack
- Roll: 12
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 20
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 10
- FirstAtkRnd: 7
Roll 10
- type: Attack
- Roll: 11
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 19
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 9
- FirstAtkRnd: 7
Roll 11
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Acrobatics
- Roll: 14
- Modifier: +4
- Result: 18
- Advantage: 0
Roll 12
- type: Attack
- Roll: 2
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 10
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 12
Roll 13
- type: Attack
- Roll: 4
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 12
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 12
Roll 14
- type: Attack
- Roll: 4
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 12
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 12
Roll 15
- type: Attack
- Roll: 7
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 15
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 12
Roll 16
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Acrobatics
- Roll: 9
- Modifier: +4
- Result: 13
- Advantage: 0
Roll 17
- type: Attack
- Roll: 7
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 15
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 17
Roll 18
- type: Attack
- Roll: 13
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 21
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 10
- FirstAtkRnd: 17
Roll 19
- type: Attack
- Roll: 8
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 16
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 9
- FirstAtkRnd: 17
Roll 20
- type: Attack
- Roll: 20
- Modifier: +8
- Result: 28
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: ++
- Damage: 19
- FirstAtkRnd: 17
Roll 21
- type: Save
- Skill: Wisdom
- Roll: 4
- Modifier: +3
- Result: 7
- Advantage: 0
Roll 22
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Religion
- Roll: 4
- Modifier: +3
- Result: 7
- Advantage: 0
Roll 23
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Persuasion
- Roll: 1
- Modifier: +3
- Result: 4
- Advantage: 0
Roll 24
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Insight
- Roll: 13
- Modifier: +7
- Result: 20
- Advantage: 0
Roll 25
- type: Attack
- Roll: 5
- Modifier: +4
- Result: 9
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 25
Berg (GassyMexican):
Roll 1
- type: Skill check
- Skill: ?
- Roll: 6
- Modifier: 0
- Result: 6
- Advantage: 0
Roll 2
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Initiative
- Roll: 10
- Modifier: +1
- Result: 11
- Advantage: +
Roll 3
- type: Save
- Skill: Dexterity
- Roll: 10
- Modifier: +1
- Result: 11
- Advantage: +
Roll 4
- type: Attack
- Roll: 10
- Modifier: +9
- Result: 19
- Advantage: +
- Hit: +
- Damage: 31
- FirstAtkRnd: 4
Roll 5
- type: Attack
- Roll: 11
- Modifier: +9
- Result: 20
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 21
- FirstAtkRnd: 4
Roll 6
- type: Save
- Skill: Constitution
- Roll: 19
- Modifier: +5
- Result: 24
- Advantage: 0
Roll 7
- type: Attack
- Roll: 17
- Modifier: +9
- Result: 26
- Advantage: +
- Hit: +
- Damage: 27
- FirstAtkRnd: 7
Roll 8
- type: Attack
- Roll: 17
- Modifier: +9
- Result: 26
- Advantage: +
- Hit: +
- Damage: 14
- FirstAtkRnd: 7
Roll 9
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Survival
- Roll: 3
- Modifier: +2
- Result: 5
- Advantage: 0
Maharib (itmeJP):
Roll 1
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Arcana
- Roll: 20
- Modifier: +1
- Result: 21
- Advantage: 0
Roll 2
- type: Skill check
- Skill: ?
- Roll: 10
- Modifier: 0
- Result: 10
- Advantage: 0
Roll 3
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Initiative
- Roll: 14
- Modifier: 0
- Result: 14
- Advantage: 0
Roll 4
- type: Skill check
- Skill: History
- Roll: 10
- Modifier: +5
- Result: 15
- Advantage: 0
Roll 5
- type: Save
- Skill: Dexterity
- Roll: 1
- Modifier: 0
- Result: 1
- Advantage: 0
Roll 6
- type: Attack
- Roll: 18
- Modifier: +10
- Result: 28
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 21
- FirstAtkRnd: 6
Roll 7
- type: Attack
- Roll: 16
- Modifier: +10
- Result: 26
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 26
- FirstAtkRnd: 6
Roll 8
- type: Attack
- Roll: 9
- Modifier: +10
- Result: 19
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 34
- FirstAtkRnd: 6
Roll 9
- type: Attack
- Roll: 20
- Modifier: +10
- Result: 30
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: ++
- Damage: 48
- FirstAtkRnd: 6
Roll 10
- type: Attack
- Roll: 5
- Modifier: +10
- Result: 15
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 6
Roll 11
- type: Attack
- Roll: 15
- Modifier: +10
- Result: 25
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 27
- FirstAtkRnd: 6
Roll 12
- type: Attack
- Roll: 11
- Modifier: +10
- Result: 21
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 19
- FirstAtkRnd: 12
Roll 13
- type: Attack
- Roll: 15
- Modifier: +10
- Result: 25
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 26
- FirstAtkRnd: 12
Roll 14
- type: Attack
- Roll: 1
- Modifier: +10
- Result: 11
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: –
- Damage: 0
- FirstAtkRnd: 12
Roll 15
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Medicine
- Roll: 18
- Modifier: -1
- Result: 17
- Advantage: +
Roll 16
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Survival
- Roll: 9
- Modifier: +3
- Result: 12
- Advantage: 0
Roll 17
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Arcana
- Roll: 17
- Modifier: +1
- Result: 18
- Advantage: 0
Roll 18
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Survival
- Roll: 8
- Modifier: +3
- Result: 11
- Advantage: 0
Roll 19
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Survival
- Roll: 6
- Modifier: +3
- Result: 9
- Advantage: 0
Roll 20
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Deception
- Roll: 17
- Modifier: -2
- Result: 15
- Advantage: 0
Adam Koebel:
Roll 1
- type: Attack
- Result: 18
- Target: Berg
- Advantage: +
- Hit: +
- Damage: 39
Roll 2
- type: Skill check
- Skill: Initiative
- Result: 11
- Advantage: 0
Roll 3
- type: Attack
- Result: 19
- Target: Yotta
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 25
Roll 4
- type: Attack
- Result: 16
- Target: Ramus
- Advantage: -
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
Roll 5
- type: Damage
- Damage: 40
- Target: Maharib
Roll 6
- type: Attack
- Result: 25
- Target: Yotta
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 11
Roll 7
- type: Save
- Skill: Constitution
- Result: 27
- Advantage: 0
Roll 8
- type: Save
- Skill: Constitution
- Result: 28
- Advantage: 0
Roll 9
- type: Damage
- Damage: 56
- Target: Berg
Roll 10
- type: Damage
- Damage: 28
- Target: Ramus
Roll 11
- type: Save
- Skill: Strength
- Result: 32
- Advantage: 0
Roll 12
- type: Save
- Skill: Strength
- Result: 33
- Advantage: 0
Roll 13
- type: Save
- Skill: Strength
- Result: 21
- Advantage: 0
Roll 14
- type: Save
- Skill: Wisdom
- Result: 10
- Advantage: 0
Roll 15
- type: Attack
- Result: 15
- Target: Berg
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: -
- Damage: 0
Roll 16
- type: Attack
- Result: 25
- Target: Berg
- Advantage: 0
- Hit: +
- Damage: 26
Roll 17
- type: Save
- Skill: Dexterity
- Result: 13
- Advantage: 0
Roll 18
- type: Save
- Skill: Constitution
- Result: 20
- Advantage: 0
Roll 19
- type: Save
- Skill: Constitution
- Result: 15
- Advantage: 0
Average Results
- Ramus Krill: 18.583
- Yotta Zō: 14.320
- Berg: 16.444
- Maharib: 17.150
- Adam Koebel: 20.500
Average Rolls
- Ramus Krill: 11.833
- Yotta Zō: 8.000
- Berg: 11.444
- Maharib: 12.000
Damage dealt
- Ramus Krill: 62
- Yotta Zō: 73
- Berg: 93
- Maharib: 201
- Adam Koebel: 225
Damage taken
- Ramus Krill: 28
- Yotta Zō: 36
- Berg: 121
- Maharib: 40
- Maharib dealt a total of 156 damage in a single round (27 more than against the dragon last episode)
- Berg took more damage than all other players combined
- Zeke had his worst raw d20 roll average since I started tracking the stats in week 74
- And he rolled a ‘4’ 8 times out of 25 rolls
3 Likes
That kind of thing is covered in the prep videos Adam does
Did you just say “in real life Jesus isn’t a new generation of God, he is God.”? HAHAHAHAHA
I understand what you meant but man that was funny 
Yeah, I like where you’re going with this.
However, I’d take it even further. Maybe the Mara are not just matter feeding on the life of something else. Maybe, they’re just a different form of life. Sort of like a fungus, and just like a fungus they’re not intentionally evil. They’re simply just there and live in a parasitic or symbiotic relationship with the fountain.
This would imply that the Fountain and the Mara are more something like a chaotic cosmic garden. Their relationship was neither bound to happen nor does it necessarily work on its own. And there could be somebody profiting from the tending and organising of this cosmic mess.
The question that remains, who is profiting and what Ramus really saw. It was implicated that it went so completly against everything he believed in that it literally blew his mind. So, I assume there is something darker to it. Not just a questioning but a reversal of known truths. Maybe the souls itself are something that should not be here and the relationship is actually reversed: the fountain feeding of the life of the world.
1 Like