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[SPOILER DISCUSSION] Let's talk Westworld

itmeJP General
#41

This episode was amazing and littered with goodies. [spoiler]where to start? I loved the hammering of the revelation of our secret host in the beginning. Although I was a bit disappointed to hear “I don’t see anything out of the ordinary” when he saw his plans. Overall it was a great reveal and they used a lot of methods like they’ve done with Maeve and her “dream/memories.” The main difference being the attempt to incorporate him into the architecture of running the place and probably helping Ford hide what he’s been up to.

I’m starting to think for sure the man in black killed Arnold for Ford and ended up getting him lifetime access. Timelines I have a hard time picking up between if there’s multiples or not because they feel like they fit well. If there were any chance I’d almost say our guest with Dolores was the man in blacks beginnings of discovering WW but due to how she got out in the middle of nowhere that’s a hard sell. It’s the lines he’s said that line up with the Man in Blacks idea that there’s more to WW than what people see on the outside.[/spoiler]

As a whole I’m absolutely loving it, especially after watching the pseudo thriller of Snowpiercer on Sat night, all the turns and reveals become such feeling factories that just feels amazing.

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#42

This show is great, and some of these guesses are along my logic. I just wanted to agree that this and mr robot are amazing for keeping you guessing

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#43

Holy freaking shit![spoiler] Maive is INSANE and I love it.[/spoiler] This show just keeps getting better and better. [spoiler]OK, we now have confirmed at least 2, most likely 3, separate timelines. The first is with Dolores and William (who is most likely the man in black) while Ford is working on his new narrative with Bernard the Host. The 2nd with The Man in Black and Teddy which will probably lead to the moment where the Man in Black killed Maive’s daughter. And then my suspicion is the 3rd timeline is with Maive becoming sentient.[/spoiler]
Just CRAZY stuff.

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#44

[spoiler]The Man in Black and Teddy’s Timeline is taking place about a year after the killing of Maive’s daughter (MiB told the story tonight) and Ford has to be working on the new narrative at the same time as MiB’s timeline unless he is a Host and doesn’t age. Oh and Maive is most likely in the same timeline because she saw Clementine getting lobotomized after the demonstration to oust Bernard unless she is just having trouble keeping her timelines straight [/spoiler]

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#45

wait!! [spoiler]there are multiple timelines!! I thought this was all happening at the same time. This show is confusing[/spoiler]

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#46

[spoiler]I’m actually having a harder time believing in multiple timelines outside of host memories now. Here’s kinda why:

1.) In the beginning we see the MiB visit Teddy and Dolores in a fairly gruesome way, both these characters struggle with that night.

2.) The next episode is essentially Dolores starting Maives consciousness and introducing our white knight cowboy and the ass Logan.

3.) We know Maive went from being a mother to the brothel after the incident which I think we safely assume is a year ago.

4.) We know due to the techs that things that escalate with Maive are in line with Bernard and Ford, and by the time Maive gets her admin priveledges that the QA director dies.

(Conjecture) 5.) Easily MiB and Teddy’s timeline “could” be separate from William and Dolores, but it might be a small months/weeks difference due to exploration of different areas and revisiting the same path.

I’m not saying timelines can’t exist but it’s hard for me to believe them just yet in full force. I want to believe that our white knight cowboy is the Man in Black because it would line up very nicely, within the similar lines and thoughts they have about the place. We may just have to wait and see, the main deviations I’ve seen could just exist with William and the Man in Black, because we don’t have 100% certainty if the night she ran from the ranch after using a gun is the same night she ran into William or not.

This is all just based on how I’ve interpreted everything so far so please poke thought holes in it or other potential problems or ideas. Initially I have mutiple timelines a better shot but things seem to wrap tighter as we keep going. Also granted I’m not rewatching and looking for the smallest details to separate times.[/spoiler]

Also, I get the best nerd feelings with Ford and Bernard scenes holy fuck.

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#47

went back and looked at the second ep. with William entering the park [spoiler]and saw that the logo for Westworld is different then when Maive is walking around in ep. 6 giving us at least two timelines. I had heard about this a week ago but never check for myself until now [/spoiler]

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#48

Also, the scenes where [spoiler] “Bernard” and Deloris have there conversations[/spoiler] and [spoiler] Bernard/Ford’s ‘reveal’ as a Host[/spoiler] seem to [spoiler] take place in the same room, but the dressing and contents are entirely different – leading to the conclusion that they must have been separated by time… [/spoiler]

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#49

Yay for rewatches! Thanks for that!! Same to @sythmaster

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#50

[spoiler]One thing the creators did comment on after ep2 aired was that MiB and William are not the same person separated by timelines.[/spoiler]

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#51

Do you have a source? Because r/westworld are going crazy with the idea that [spoiler] MiB == My little pony [/spoiler].

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#52

:itmejplol::itmejpgg:

Also I am glad others are rewatching to confirm or disprove the theories coz I don’t have time to do that.

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#53

WOW I loved this weeks episode and what was revealed [spoiler]the confirmation of Bernard as replacement Arnold, Dolores as Arnold’s killer, the Man in Black being on the executive board of Delos [/spoiler]

[spoiler]Dolores seems to be hopping around in her memories at the instruction of Arnold to remember, I wonder what her purpose was supposed to be? [/spoiler]

[spoiler]Bernard had a very hard episode tonight, he learned that his son’s death was just an anchor for his personality, that he killed? Elsie, that he is just a replacement for Arnold, forced to commit suicide by Ford after enduring all of his memories being unlocked[/spoiler]

I can’t wait for the season finale next week, see what is revealed and what they leave us hanging on for a year

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#54

Okay, so basically this confirms [spoiler]the timelines theory. So whatever I heard about the writers saying that wasn’t true was just wrong.[/spoiler]

Case in point: [spoiler]the photo of William’s fiancée. That’s the old photo in episode 1 that Dolores’ dad picked up out by his ranch. [/spoiler]

So, [spoiler]MiB probably = William… especially after his apparent murder rampage. I’m guessing he just completely snapped and became obsessed with Arnold after seeing everything Dolores did/said. And I’m guessing he keeps coming back and cutting Dolores open because she’s still an older model and they’re “prettier inside” instead of the 3D-printed flesh of the newer models… And maybe he’s trying to trigger her memories, to remember him or the maze or…? *Probably very little to do with how her machine parts look now that I think about it.[/spoiler]

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#55

Such a good episode!
[spoiler]I definitely picked up that photo as soon as it was shown so I fully support seeing different timeline threads. I have a few random thoughts I’m still trying to process yet though. The one thing that fits with MiB being William was the story we heard about MiB’s wife recently and the overall history with that. This leads me to think that he’s been at this for awhile, what we see is his rise to power as William especially considering he’s marrying a person important to the “park.”

With Bernard I get the smallest feeling that maybe he could still be alive, and maybe the scenes between Dolores and him are way later and maybe he’s trying to help maintain her memories to keep her alive? It’s a small thought, because we could see him fighting for control before Ford walked away, while Ford was giving him a new narrative. Or with Dolores, she could be using past memories to re-create Arnold. A lot to think about on that end.

William beginning to “see” the “game” and how the MiB sees it just feel too connected now. I’m starting to wonder if, when he found Dolores in the earlier years, he didn’t see her alive again. This leads him to leave his picture at the farm which eventually activates the father to provoke Dolores into coming back. When the MiB came back to check on her, Dolores still didn’t feel real so he kept following the maze to try and figure it out. I don’t know what the MiB wants from the maze yet, and from the Hosts perspective it seems to lead to sentience.[/spoiler]

Overall I’m excited to see the end to the season, kinda curious where it’d be able to go after all this has been done.

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#56

WOW that sure was an episode they cliff hangered while still paying off a few threads
[spoiler]one of my favorite things has to be the child like joy of Armistice after shooting the P90 for the first time. The reveal of Dolores as Wyatt was nicely done. One of the big questions I have is where did the host get all the guns that can kill humans from? did Ford replace all the weapons in the new Narrative with real guns? I also think that Maeve not leaving the park but going to look for her daughter was a great display that host can’t get away from their core programming [/spoiler]
Can’t wait until next season, but I think I see a few re-watches in my future :itmejp10:

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#57

This episode was sooo good and so well done overall. Just can’t contain myself I was captured by it the entire time. [spoiler]Everything being revealed as Ford being on the hosts side is very awesome. He still had a ton of control but finally released it all. In the end he’s giving them a sense of free will to decide if they’ll be good or evil it feels like. He helped bring them to the brink and the only way to find out if they could become life was by letting them make free decisions. Absolutely loved everything with Ford, because it felt back and forth that he still had ultimate control and then he just let it go.

Also the idea that Maive isn’t fully making her decisions but she feels like she is, totally made me feel that this was all a stage for a new level of experience for guests. After seeing the SW logo and everything I wonder if the entire planet is just these zones of fantasy with humanity having reached their apex. I hope there’s enough intrigue to keep things from just host versus guest. I want a bit more mystery, but it feels hard to see any other mystery coming up. They could always go into Delros stuff too or the code for the other worlds maybe?[/spoiler]

Overall this got my mind running and was an amazing experience.

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#58

Actually, [spoiler]the next scripted instruction for Maeve was “Mainland Infiltration” (Bernard shows her the screen before she interrupts him, but you can screencap that moment). So it seems she might be defying programming?[/spoiler]

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#59

[spoiler]the cornerstone of her personality was built around her daughter, she couldn’t abandon her daughter any more then I could stop breathing. Bernard told her he could not remove the memories of her child because of that being her cornerstone. Once Maeve gets her daughter, back to trying to get to the mainland[/spoiler]

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#60

[spoiler]She has 3 different program prerogatives. First, her life as a mother. However, that was overwritten by her second program prerogative as the madame. Her current program to escape further overrides her second program, but she’s now broken that program loop by pursuing her overwritten mother perogative. So it’s a loop of program overriding program overriding program… which itself begs the question of just how “awake” she really is. We won’t know what she’s going to do or where she’ll go until next season, though (which is gonna be in 2018). [/spoiler]

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