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[E35 Q&A] Stepping Outside the Wheel of Fate

RollPlay®: Court of Swords
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#92

I don’t know if this is the place to point this out, but here goes.

Something rubbed me the wrong way about JP’s x-bow machine-gun concept with a off-hand shield, and I remembered this article from the Sage Advice.

Feat questions

Basically it says that even though you ignore the loading property of a x-bow it still assumes you have a free hand to load the bolt.

I know the players need to min/max to survive the horrors Adam unleashes on them, but it just didn’t seem physically possible. And the chinese repeating x-bow they talked about still required two hands.

Ok, I’m done venting now :stuck_out_tongue:

thanks for reading.

#93

Correct place for this would most likely be the discussion on the Patreon video you are referring to.

I feel like it wouldn’t be impossible to use the shield to rewire the hand x-bow if it had a hook attached to it. A bolt feeder of some kind could be used to drop the bolt in to its place. This would sill require refilling the feeder once per turn but it could be done as a free action.

I know it’s stretching the rules but i feel like rule of Cool vs RAW can be applied here to make it possible. JP essentially gains +2 AC but his character is gimped by the fact that he can’t use Heavy Armor. Not like the build is extremely powerful anyways. At their current level Ranger could dish out more damage constantly while spending next to no resources if the same build was applied to that class. (More damage due Colossus Slayer and Hunter’s Mark working really well with multiple hits. Level 11 Fighter gets more attacks per turn but Rangers gian Volley)

The next feat in line is Lucky. I feel like one should be able to use hand x-bow just fine with a shield when you can make a disadvantage in to an super advantage. When you really need to hit just close your eyes to gain disadvantage to be able to roll three dice and select the highest. Feats are silly that way.

#94

One could house rule the crossbow expert feat similar to the warcaster in that it allows you to do something you’d need a free hand for.

#95

Fair points :slight_smile:

I’m just a stickler for the rules.

I’m not really worried about the balance of the thing either, since Adam is really good at adjusting for the characters strength and weaknesses.

I forget, why can’t he use heavy armor?

#96

He doesn’t have the strength requirement for anything other than ring mail, which is less AC for him with his high Dex anyway.

#97

the shield is a kibosh - he needs a free hand to reload

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#98

Could he find an armor smith or something that could build him some custom shield that allowed him to reload at the same time? Find an RP loophole.

#99

[spoiler]Isn’t that what his squire is for? Also, I thought he was using that Chinese machine-gun crossbow. Doesn’t that hold more than one bolt at a time? The design certainly suggests as much.[/spoiler]

#100

[spoiler]It does, but it’s single action basically. You still have to work a lever system to load the next bolt. All pulling the trigger will do is fire the bolt that is already loaded.[/spoiler]

#101

No. D&D doesn’t really support loopholes like that, it’s just not part of the design balance of the game.

#102

If he can’t use a shield, is there any reason to use a hand crossbow over a longbow?

#103

I believe a hand crossbow is a one-handed weapon while a long bow is a two-handed weapon.

The rules permit him to use a shield and hand crossbow, but not a shield and long bow.

The only thing the shield is stopping him from doing is reloading without using an action. IIRC.

#104

using an action surge just to do 2d6 dmg in a turn doesnt seem that great, especially if he only gets 1 action surge per rest, where if he was using a longbow he would get 2d8 every round and 4d8 when using action surge.

I’m just wondering if i’m missing something??

#105

By taking crossbow expert and using hand crossbow he can a) make 4 attacks using the crossbow (one normal and one as bonus action using second part of the feat, then another attack because of Extra Attack and theoretically another attack action due to Action Surge) and b) be able to make crossbow attacks at melee without disadvantage.

He can’t use the shield either way as both weapons require 2 hands to use, longbow = 2 handed and crossbow’s ammunition trait require you have a free-hand to load ammunition (separate trait from “reloading”)

Edit: so with crossbow (and feat) he gets 3d6 per turn (4d6 once per rest) vs 2d8 with longbow.

#106

ahhh okay, thanks for the clear up!

#107

Both a) and b) are slightly wrong:

a) He can make 3 attacks with hand x-bow (2 with [Extra] Attack Action and 1 as a Bonus Action) and 5 when using Action Surge. Action Surge gives an additional Action and using Attack Action gives him 2 extra attacks due Extra Attack rule. (PHB 72)

b) Any ranged attack can be made in melee without disadvantage with the Crossbow Expert feat. This even includes spells. Usually every feature has a more general benefit and this is the one on Crossbow Expert. (PHB 165)

While long bow has +1 greater average damage than hand x-bow the extra hit is well more worth it as you also gain your stat bonus with every hit. With a +3 DEX modifier Longbow does 15 (2d8+6) average damage with 2 hits and hand x-bow does 19.5 (3d6+9) with 3 hits.

IMHO the best advantage that the hand x-bow gives is one more attack roll to not miss with. String of bad rolls is what usually gets someone killed and with hand x-bow you get to roll one more time. With Sharpshooter feat the biggest disadvantage of hand x-bow is negated as you don’t have to be within 30 feet to be effective. JP really needs to remember to gather bolts after fights as he will be using tons of them.

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#108

Oh yes I was getting kinda muddled in the attacks since there’s so much interaction between the abilities and feats, thanks for clearing that up! Still stands that crossbow is better than longbow for sure. Seems interesting though, I can’t wait to see how this character plays out.

#109

@AdamKoebel Would JP be allowed to load his hand crossbow if he were to have a “buckler” strapped to his offhand forearm? Maybe only have it give +1 AC instead of +2? It seems silly that a hand crossbow is still a 2 handed weapon in terms of the ruleset because of the reloading mechanic.

Edit: Also would you allow a shield if JP were to use a repeating hand crossbow (3 shot clip)? Maybe not with his Action Surge 5 shot combo but with his standard 3 shot combo he wouldn’t need to reload until the attack turn was over.
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Hand_Crossbow,Repeating(5e_Equipment)

#110

nah, there’s only one shield in 5e.

1 Like
#111

Fair enough, was worth trying to lawyer it anyways :smiley: thanks for the response.