itmeJP Community


Ice_poseidon Ban and IRL streaming


(Twitch: uzling) #61

I personaly belive that extream things has no place on twitch. As I come from the diablo community I can only say when kingkonger got perma banned alot of ppl was very happy. As I said before I dont know this dude, but for my taste its way to extream. And yes I get his trying to push the limit but sometimes commens sens is...


(RaevnEldaer) #62

IRL is pretty extreme on its own though isnt it?


(notNOTjack) #63

Given that the only time I’ve heard of this guy before you started this thread was because people were commenting, and when I say people I don’t mean only viewers but streamers as well, how toxic and out of control him and his community are it’s safe to assume there is something not exactly right with himself, his content or the community he fosters.

You keep saying he is not at fault but he is completely at fault if he hasn’t done anything of note to move away from that type of community and foster a better one. If that means changing how you manage your stream and content, maybe even revamping it completely, then that’s what you do if you truly want to avoid this kind of thing. You just have to go around twitch and watching a couple of different channels of that same size to see that it is completely on the streamers’ hands to shape his community to be something they prefer and to be honest the streamers’ personalities, or the personas they portray for the sake of the stream, are definitely a huge factor on that.

Besides, you yourself said that apparently this would have happened regardless of him being on IRL which means again that it has nothing to do with what IRL is or what Twitch should or should not do to protect their streamers and has all to do with his community and the way he conducts it all. At least you have to be smarter than that if you know that part of your viewers tend to be that way.

And what is Twitch’s responsibility here? To be honest I do not see them as having any responsibility in the matter and don’t see them as being liable for peoples’ ill-thought-out conduct or criminal behaviour whatsoever. That’s not to say that they are completely safe from repercussions, if someone can sue a company and win for selling you a hot coffee without the cup having some kind of warning that, surprise surprise, the coffee is hot and might burn you than you can sue anyone for anything that common sense should cover. And so yes, Twitch possibly should cover their ass by being stricter with their TOS and enforcing it.

Does that mean that it will necessarily kill the IRL section or that they should even go to the extent of closing it down? Of course not. There has to be some degree of trust on the streamers' ability to not be straight up imbeciles and be able to, as much as possible, not endanger themselves regardless of what they are doing and prevent or delay their location to be known which, again, would not be so much of a problem if they try and keep a stable, civil and respectful community that will behave like sane people and not a bunch of preteen delinquents.

There already has been a streamer that basically died on stream, he wasn’t actually on camera but his stream was live at the time, and, correct me if I’m wrong, he died due to health complications that can be associated to his unhealthy life style, a life style that again can be associated with his streaming career. If Twitch is in some way responsible for protecting streamers from what happened in the situation you want discussed then they would be also be responsible for these situations as well and then we start stepping into something completely absurd where Twitch has all the responsibilities and duties and the streamers can’t be accountable for anything they do.


(RaevnEldaer) #64

You keep saying he is not at fault but he is completely at fault if he hasn’t done anything of note to move away from that type of community and foster a better one. If that means changing how you manage your stream and content, maybe even revamping it completely, then that’s what you do if you truly want to avoid this kind of thing.

Its very annoying people that haven't been paying attention and keep saying he hasn't done anything to change it. He has several times. He-s done entire overhauls. But with these specific people who have been harassing him lately and the newfound viewer explosion of IRL it got out of hand.

And what is Twitch’s responsibility here?

Twitches responsibility in my eyes is very clear, its their responsibility to make sure this or something worse doesn't happen again. And I don't think banning one streamer and hoping the problem goes away will solve anything. It will just happen again to someone else.

There already has been a streamer that basically died on stream, he wasn’t actually on camera but his stream was live at the time

That's not a very good argument. In that situation no one is at fault and it does it no real way impact peoples views or action in regards to twitch. Besides right now, the worst that has happened in IRL is someone ended up being banned, Twitch should not close their IRL section, but they should acknowledge and deal with the associated risks in a way to prevent as much of future incidents like this as possible.


(Might be Captain Marvel) #65

Reminder to keep the conversation civil.


(RaevnEldaer) #66

No worries. I'm here outta <3


(banned) #67

@RaevnEldaer to be fair most of us aren't familiar with this person, we have no way of knowing what they have or have not done to try and get their community to a better place/way of acting.


(RaevnEldaer) #68

yup I understand. Just wanted it to be clear if someone casually reads that he does not condone this type of community or behaviour and almost quit streaming because of it. He-s tried and failed and yes you might argue he could've done a better or more preemptive job at cleaning the community, he'd probably be the first to admit that.

I'm not upset with anyone here btw, just to make that clear :slight_smile:

I'm happy you guys are willing to discuss the situation with me considering most of you don't watch Ice_poseidon


(notNOTjack) #69

Sorry if I came across a bit rough there.

I did read the entire thread and as @Jabba_the_space_gangster said we don’t have first hand knowledge about how he tries or tried to foster that better community and, I hope this doesn’t upset you, we only have the word of someone that is clearly a fan of the guy and is bothered by what happened and fans sometimes have a skewed or distorted image of the reality they fan about. You do seem very composed and grounded enough to actually be impartial in your assessment of his efforts but still I believe we can’t be blamed for taking it with a grain of salt. That’s why we might still hold on to the idea that most communities that become that chaotic or uncontrollable tend to become that way because the streamers don’t do or have much moderation in place and their content or personality encourages, even if unintentionally, those attitudes. But to be fair, if it wasn’t a concern for him until things started getting out of hand, it is an extremely hard thing to revert because the rotten apples believe they have found a place for them and rooted.

In respect to Twitch having the responsibility to make sure that this or worst doesn’t happen is asking the impossible. As it was mentioned before most of that responsibility will always lie with the streamers in the sense that what they share and do on stream or otherwise has to always be thought out with the knowledge that thousands of people will have access to it and may react in unwanted or unexpected ways. Plenty of streamers that don’t stream on IRL, and thus are much harder to find, have been swatted or harassed in other ways and there is nothing that Twitch can do to prevent ill intentioned people on the internet to take whatever information they can find and use it maliciously. Other than reminding people to take this into consideration at every moment, to be smart about their options and to be careful there's little else. Otherwise Twitch would have to completely regulate every and any little thing that might happen at every second of a stream and that would just oppress everyone and most likely destroy Twitch.

Banning him might very well cause the idiots calling the swats and everything else to realise that they can probably get other people banned as well, as you said, and that would be very unfortunate but then again there isn’t much else Twitch could do. If this is on the public eye already it would also be unreasonable for Twitch to keep associating with him, specially when his actions, in whatever small way it may be, did contribute to what happened. And I’m sure Twitch analysed and as been aware of the whole situation for a while and decided , correctly or not, that there hadn’t been enough effort made to prevent this from happening and that it should be considered a bannable offence. Lets not forget Twitch staff are regularly found watching streams of this size whether for entertainment or work.

Anyway, as @Crosseye_Jack said, no one here has been able to propose an actual course of action that would prevent this things from happening and Twitch addressing or discussing this publicly in any way shape or form would not do it either. It could possibly bring some more attention to the fact streamers should try and protect themselves as much as possible but nothing else would come of it. I understand your point and you’re well intentioned but I’m not sure it would get the impact you are looking for.

As for that argument about the streamer that died I know it was a stretch, it was an hyperbole of sorts, to illustrate why Twitch is not responsible for the actions of their streamers or viewers. The situation had little, if any, general public repercussions for Twitch but it’s not far fetched to imagine some ridiculous news outlet associating streaming with endangering your health, just like people keep associating gaming with violence.


(RaevnEldaer) #70

Yup, I understand, and agree. He did try to nip it as early as possible in my opinion but like you said i'm a faN so I am probably a bit biased. :slight_smile:

In respect to Twitch having the responsibility to make sure that this or worst doesn’t happen is asking the impossible. As it was mentioned before most of that responsibility will always lie with the streamers in the sense that what they share and do on stream or otherwise has to always be thought out with the knowledge that thousands of people will have access to it and may react in unwanted or unexpected ways.

That's sorta my point, that under the current environment it's a streamer trap. It either needs to be gone or be better moderated TOS'ed.

As for that argument about the streamer that died I know it was a stretch, it was an hyperbole of sorts, to illustrate why Twitch is not responsible for the actions of their streamers or viewers. The situation had little, if any, general public repercussions for Twitch but it’s not far fetched to imagine some ridiculous news outlet associating streaming with endangering your health, just like people keep associating gaming with violence.

That's why I think twitch needs to address it before it gets worse. Not ignore it.

I feel like i'm repeating myself too much now though :stuck_out_tongue:
Btw, thanks for reading and giving your thoughts on this, I don't get upset at forums, If I did I just wouldn't respond to it probably :slight_smile:


(Typoko) #71

I tried to read this trough but in the end all i got that someone called ICE_Poseidon got banned for being swatted after he has told his stream his location and advocated people to "do their worst". And now Twitch should be responsible in protecting IRL streamers from things that happen to them?

@RaevnEldaer what exactly you are thinking when you say Twitch should protect the streamers? No matter what TOS says it doesn't protect people. It's a bunch of words, not a bodyguard with a counter hacker team. And to close IRL streaming down for everyone because something can happen to someone? What?

Would really be nice to get a concise message that would contain what @RaevnEldaer actually wants to happen. Not "better TOS" but ACTUAL changes. What are the ways that would be appropriate for Twitch to take to protect the IRL streamers? What part of the TOS is bad and how it should be changed?

PS: If something is a problem for 0.1% of users, it just might be that it's not for them or they actually might have something to do with the problem. :itmejpking:


(RaevnEldaer) #72

Ok ill summarize my opinions. From the outside looking in I can understand how people think he might have cultivated the behaviour of his community. But he has actively worked to clean his community for as long as I've watched him, and never intentionally encouraged anything.

The things that have happened lately, bomb threats, swatting and so on, could have ended with him or someone else getting shot or dangerously injured.

This would effect twitch in a very negative way, and it might lead twitch to have to close IRL section.

But seeing as to how easily the internet can figure where you are and how to get at you, twitch need better framework for streamers to work around and use their common sense with.

The way it is now, you just have to figure it out as you go and hope no one tries to ruin your career in the process.
Thats is bad.

I also think that by just banning ice, excluding his community and brushing the incident(S) under the rug sets a dangerous precedent, one that could lead to these sort of situations with future IRL or non IRL streamers. Which can lead to harm both for human beings as well as the brand of twitch and twitch as a platform.

But I think right now, regardless of what they do towards Ice_Poseidon, Twitch needs to put there foot down and figure out how to best handle current and future situations to better avoid future Dangerous incidents.

That's why I suggested that a good platform for twitch to maybe bring up these issues and have a good talk about might be Dropped Frames.

PS: If something is a problem for 0.1% of users, it just might be that it's not for them or they actually might have something to do with the problem. :itmejpking:

There aren't very many consistently successful IRL streamers yet. And the ones that are, are dealing with the same type of issues, just not to the extent ice has, Yet...

Andy milonakis has experienced the same types of things for one.


(notNOTjack) #73

Glad we understand each other.

Have a good one. Hope Ice is either allowed back or that you find a new streamer you enjoy as much as you did him :wink:


(Typoko) #74

IRL section is not only for people to do things in public. Many ways to stream on IRL when the location isn't compromised any more than on a regular stream. Also, even if in public, larger events such as TwitchCon will still most likely be a good place to IRL stream.

I watched the reply that Ice posted (the one in the news article). I don't think people should be talking that he was banned only due the swatting. His video is clearly self centered piece that doesn't contradict anything he says even when he shows no actual proof. One should be critical of what they hear. Situation is pretty meh as Twitch never releases reasons for banning someone.

I don't think that the crew of DF would want to talk about swatting. I'm pretty sure talking about swatting on a stream is a good way to get Twitch staff angry. Banned streamers might also be a rather touchy subject.

Ice_Poseidon seems to have struck a deal with YouTube and is advocating for a civil war(?) against Twitch. "In few months, we are the people who revolutionize the civil war that is against Twitch. We are bringing it down and create YouTube Live." This man really needs a PR person instead of passionate fans if he ever hopes to stream on Twitch. :wink:


(RaevnEldaer) #75

IRL section is not only for people to do things in public. Many ways to stream on IRL when the location isn't compromised any more than on a regular stream. Also, even if in public, larger events such as TwitchCon will still most likely be a good place to IRL stream.

Then that needs to be clarified in a TOS.

Ice_Poseidon seems to have struck a deal with YouTube and is advocating for a civil war(?) against Twitch. "In few months, we are the people who revolutionize the civil war that is against Twitch. We are bringing it down and create YouTube Live." This man really needs a PR person instead of passionate fans if he ever hopes to stream on Twitch. :wink:

Yeah, he shouldn't have said that. But is it surprising? This isn't the first time he-s being punished for what someone does to him. I do not take in anything anyone says. I am very well versed on this cause Ive payed a lot of attention. I am confident I have only given accurate info here, maybe if a bit biased. :wink:

This one time maybe isn't twitch responsibility but next time, if someone is hurt. Is it still not their responsibility when they could have addressed the issue at an earlier date?


(Utherix) #76

This Ice guy is a moron and he deserved his ban. Hopefully he will make better choices in the future.


(RaevnEldaer) #77

Someone talking about it if someones interested.

He makes a lot of good point. I think this might actually spark life in youtube gaming. Sad for twitch though, if they manage to create a competitor in a field youtube previously couldn't compete.


(banned) #78

I highly highly doubt it.

People have been saying Twitch is the future over reddit just as much as the other way.


(RaevnEldaer) #79

Yeah true, regarding the ads and stuff, but if their contacting ice and they also recently got pewdiepie back, who seemed to want to transition to twitch, youtube might be reconsidering the value of their streaming platform. Maybe they'll redesign and take it more seriously in the future if they see they have enough high profile streamers and fan bases to compete more evenly with an established platform like twitch. Both platforms aren't going anywhere though so :stuck_out_tongue:

Its besides my point, even if Ice is leaving twitch the elephant is still hiding in twitches corner till something like this happens again.


(Twitch: NobelusTV) #80

Wait?! After all this, he still decides to stream at an Airport if I understand correctly? That is in my opinion a really dumb Idea, I get that he's a IRL streamer, but he couldn't turn of the stream at a high security area until he's at his location? I think he with his actions invited this behaviour.